Woman: 0:00

Hey dude

Dude: 0:01

Hi woman!

Woman: 0:02

so I got to talk to Diana today.

Dude: 0:05

Nice. So what'd you guys talk about?

Woman: 0:08

which I kinda do every day. But this

Dude: 0:11

ZF

Woman: 0:12

time I I got to talk to her with the recording on, so so it was it was really fun. Yeah.

Dude: 0:16

Nice. So what'd learn today?

Woman: 0:20

well, I didn't think there was anything left for me to learn about Diana, but turns out there is. There's a lot of things I still don't know about. One of my best friends. so Between us we have eleven children. She has six. I have five. So that's eleven different birth stories, you know. no seems like you never have the same birth story twice. And so she shared what it was like when she gave birth to her fifth child when they were in Farmington, New Mexico. And Mike had a meeting down in Albuquerque, three hours away, and left. Left her Incredibly pregnant. And he was concerned. Like he he didn't want to leave. And she's like, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Go ahead and go, go. And and so he you know how Cuba's like halfway between Albuquerque and Farmington?

Dude: 1:16

Yeah.

Woman: 1:18

he checked in on her, you know, at the halfway point and I'm fine, I'm doing good, you know. Which is so Diana. It's like always she's just always like, I'm good, I'm fine, you know, everything's good.

Dude: 1:30

Right.

Woman: 1:30

And anyway, her sister lived like 10 minutes away and came over to just be with her, didn't like the idea of her being alone. And all of a sudden Diana just didn't feel right, kind of had a pain and was like, ooh. I think I want Mike back home. So she calls Mike and you know says, Come back home. So he immediately turns around, hits back. And so her plan was to just sit and wait for Mike to return and then she'd go to the hospital and have the baby. And her sister was like, Nope. You're transitioning. It is time. We gotta get to the hospital. And Diana, I I thought it was interesting because it was her fifth pregnancy, her fifth, Time having a baby. And it was really her sister who knew it. This is not what you think it is. It is time to go right now. Turns

Dude: 2:26

Yeah.

Woman: 2:26

out she had the baby half an hour before Mike got there. Mike was

Dude: 2:30

wow.

Woman: 2:30

half an hour late. Yeah. Yeah. And she believes that if her sister hadn't been there, she would have given birth at home. It it went really

Dude: 2:39

Whoa, that's wild.

Woman: 2:41

fast. Yeah. And And so something that kind of came out in the conversation was just this idea of sometimes it's hard to hear the truth or to believe the truth when it doesn't fit what you think the truth should be. Does that make sense?

Dude: 3:00

Well, yes, and I don't know if you were going to bring this up, I mean, her fifth child, our fifth child, I'm actually seeing some similarities there.

Woman: 3:14

I didn't bring it up with Diana but I was wondering if you were gonna go there. Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Dude: 3:21

Yeah, because there were so many things that just didn't make sense, right? In our reality, and

Woman: 3:29

Mm.

Dude: 3:31

the signs were there, we didn't pick up on.

Woman: 3:34

So you're not talking about me going into labor, but me actually being pregnant with my fifth.

Dude: 3:40

Right. Yeah, just

Woman: 3:42

Yeah.

Dude: 3:43

there were all the signs, but there were also plenty of excuses. It's like, well, I've been sick. I, you know, that kind of masked the pregnancy. And so it.

Woman: 3:59

Yeah, it's it's it's kind of embarrassing to tell because for my fifth child, I didn't find out I was pregnant until I was four months along. And five days after I found I was pregnant, I had an ultrasound and found out I was having a boy. I

Dude: 4:14

Yeah.

Woman: 4:15

mean, it was crazy. And and I had gone to the doctor, the doctor told me I wasn't pregnant. so I thought doctors know what they're doing. And and then when I went into the doctor's office, you know, and I was probably three months along when the doctor told me I wasn't pregnant. And then when I went into the doctor's office, the new doctor's office, I told them my story. They didn't think I was pregnant. They were convinced I wasn't pregnant. So they had me take a pregnancy test. I had taken one at home. You didn't think I was pregnant. You thought there was something wrong with the test.

Dude: 4:53

Right.

Woman: 4:54

went to the doctor's office. They were convinced I wasn't pregnant, said well let's have you take the test just to be sure. Showed I was pregnant. They didn't believe the test. They thought the test was wrong.

Dude: 5:05

Yeah, yeah, so, so very similarly, right? You've

Woman: 5:10

Mm-hmm.

Dude: 5:10

had four pregnancies, births and all that. Same with Diana. Four pregnancies,

Woman: 5:13

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dude: 5:16

four births. It's like, I got this. I know what's going on.

Woman: 5:20

Yeah.

Dude: 5:21

Guess what? We're wrong.

Woman: 5:22

Yeah. And I I'd hear these stories of women that were surprised by giving birth in a bathroom or you know, you hear those stories in the news. And I always judgmentally used to think, Well, you gotta be a special kind of stupid to not know you're pregnant. but now I see it. I mean, it's it's really easy to ignore the signs or to suppress or whatever you call it. when it doesn't fit the story you've been told or it doesn't fit what

Dude: 5:51

Right.

Woman: 5:51

you think your reality is. And that's kind of what happened to Diana, you know, when she was of just about to have her fifth child. It was her sister who was like, get to the hospital. We're going right now. And she got all the kids situated, you know, taken care of. And Dara's like, No, it'll be okay. Michael, get here. And and so we connected it to this idea of Sometimes we need to tell truth to people who either don't want to believe it or don't think we're telling the truth or people aren't responding the way we expect them to respond when we are confident that what we're saying is true. And we also talked about how sometimes that validation comes later and you realize, yeah, I you know, others like, Hey, thank you. You were telling the truth and we didn't believe you at first and now we do and you think, Okay, good, I've been validated. But sometimes that validation doesn't come.

Dude: 7:03

So, give me an example of that.

Woman: 7:06

Well, I mean, it kind of morphed into more like when we're serving in a church capacity or in a professional capacity and we see something that's wrong. We see something going on that we're like, hey, this isn't right. And so we try to let the people who are supervisors or leaders or, you know, whoever's in charge know. And they just are like, Yeah, we don't We don't think you're right, you know, we we don't see it the same way you see it. And and sometimes it's because they don't wanna see it. They don't wanna see that there really is an issue or what we're saying really is the truth. And so then it starts becoming this we the you know, you attack the messenger, you start thinking, Well, there's there must be something wrong with you as the messenger and and when no one believes you, no one's around you to support you, you you can question yourself and you can kind of be like, wait, am I seeing this wrong? I thought I was right. I thought, you know, I was speaking the truth. And but when someone comes forward and says, Yes, she's right, I can see it too. It's powerful to have that second witness come forward and say, Yeah, she's right. And sometimes it doesn't happen until quite a bit of time has passed.

Dude: 8:28

No. And that can be challenging in a number of ways. It can be hurtful, right?

Woman: 8:36

Mm-hmm.

Dude: 8:36

And resentment can build up when there isn't that validation or even if that validation comes, but it's potentially years down the road, right?

Woman: 8:47

Mm-hmm. Yeah, Diana referred to it as betrayal trauma when you're betrayed by the very people you turn to for help or the people that you think are in a position to help and they don't help you. You know, they don't believe you and and and that's she calls that betrayal trauma. And you know, she's gone through lots of therapy with the trauma that she experienced and and she mentioned she's even had PTSD. as a result of it. And so it can be very traumatizing when you're a truth teller and it backfires, it it's not just you're brushed off. It's y there's serious repercussions for having brought the truth forward. And sometimes you get those apologies later. Sometimes you get people coming forward going, my gosh, we should have believed you if you know, initially and and then, you know, it can help the pain a little bit, but then sometimes that doesn't happen and you just feel alone and betrayed as a result. And

Dude: 9:53

Yeah.

Woman: 9:55

and and so just kind of connecting it to like what it must have been like for those women who you know, we we brought up Anna waiting at the temple eighty four years. For the Messiah to come, believing that she would live long enough to see him come. And and I said, You know, there's nothing really in the scriptures about what the eighty third year was like. And wondering if maybe there were people going, Why do you keep you know, hanging out at the temple? Why do you keep believing you're gonna l you know, it's been this long. When you know, when are you gonna give this up? Or why do you keep thinking this is actually gonna happen? Who knows? Maybe she never experienced anything like that, but but she was very patiently waiting for something that she knew to be true and and that can be hard to do.

Dude: 10:50

As you were describing some things, I was thinking about an experience I had in my career where I was lacking in confidence in myself. I was in an interesting work position where I thought my boss might be embezzling and I reached out to a third party and relayed the situation to them. But also, I was relaying the situation maybe as I wanted to believe it to be because I didn't want to believe that my boss was embezzling. I think that's

Woman: 11:32

Yeah.

Dude: 11:33

a very real possibility. but I tried to relay things as I saw them. And we concluded that, it's probably not happening. And I would say within two or three months, the other shoe fell and lo and behold, he was embezzling and all kinds of mayhem ensued. But I was lacking in confidence until that validating event happened. But I learned from it and learned to be able to trust in myself and look with a different shade of glasses. you know, be a little more questioning and be more willing to trust in myself and what I'm seeing.

Woman: 12:30

Yeah. Yeah. And that was a very difficult time. And I remember the third party that you reached out to gave you some advice to start keeping some evidence at your house that your boss could not alter. And that ended up being your saving grace, really. Because he had tried to pin it on you and because you had followed that advice, They I think they came to our house and got the evidence, didn't they? It seemed like you were out of town.

Dude: 12:57

They did. Yeah.

Woman: 12:59

thank goodness you listened to that other person who gave you that sound advice. Because and and this is something else Diana and I talked about is the the truth survives the light. And so when you shine light on something, the truth will stay true. It will not shrivel. It it will not hide. But people who are hiding something and are being deceitful, they will not like the light. They will shun the light. And and so when you have the light on your side, you don't fear the light. So I asked her for some advice on, you know, what to do when you know something is true, but you just don't have the confidence, or maybe, you know, you're just afraid to share it because you're afraid of what the consequences will be if you do. And one thing she advised is think about those who will benefit because you're sharing the truth. And that sometimes there's people who are quietly sitting beside you at in Sunday School who need you to raise your hand and say, Actually, I see it this way. This is my experience. And she and I both have had experiences where we've done that and someone has come up to us privately and said, Thank you. I needed to hear that.

Dude: 14:25

Well, we all need to be willing to step into the darkness, which is what it feels like at times, particularly when we have truth on our side. And if we're willing to rely upon the Lord for some of that courage,

Woman: 14:46

Mm-hmm.

Dude: 14:47

especially if we're speaking truth and we have truth on our side. We have the Lord on our side. this is one of my favorite quotes, doubt not, fear not

Woman: 15:01

Mm.

Dude: 15:01

and go forward. And that's challenging. It's a working process for all of us. And just the more we do it, the better we are, the better we become at it. And we realize, we're not going to die. We're not going to x, y, whatever comes to mind, whatever fears there are. But as we're standing for truth, stating truth, doing the right thing, our confidence in ourselves and hopefully our confidence in the humanity of mankind increases.

Woman: 15:46

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I appreciate you taking the time to let me process what I learned from Diana today.

Dude: 15:55

Yeah, absolutely. So glad we could have this time together.

Woman: 15:59

Okay, I love you, dude.

Dude: 16:02

Love you too, woman.