Woman: 0:02

Hi dude.

Dude: 0:03

Hey woman. How's it going?

Woman: 0:05

Good. So I finally got to have a really just one-on-one conversation McArthur Krishna. Something I just treasure whenever she and I get to talk. And she agreed to be a guest on my podcast. And oh my gosh, it was just everything I thought it would be.

Dude: 0:24

Oh, that's awesome. I I know you've been looking forward to that one for a while.

Woman: 0:29

So yeah, yeah.

Dude: 0:30

It's great.

Woman: 0:31

So I want to share with you right out the gate something she that I was like, oh my gosh, it's so cool because I have been this course, you know, for quite a few years. I've taught this module about women anointing Jesus, I don't know how many times. And she was like, hey, here's an insight. And I was like, oh, wow, never picked up on that one before.

Dude: 0:57

Hey, lay it on me.

Woman: 0:58

Okay, so she observed that in the three different stories of the women who anointed Jesus, that each time their offering was Like for one, it was um tears. The Jesus' feet were washed with her tears, which essentially is free. It doesn't cost money to produce tears. And then, like with Mary Bethany, it was um, you know, very a year's worth of salary of oil. So from one extreme to the other, and then the other one, you was expensive perfume. And she says, but despite how different what these women came to Jesus to offer, he accepted all of them equally.

Dude: 1:53

Ooh, I like that.

Woman: 1:55

Yeah, and that good. And so sometimes, especially I think I've found among women in LDS religion, but I think maybe other Christian or any, I I don't know if this is unique just to Christianity, but just um feel like they're not doing enough or doing it right. And in the in the cases of the women anointing Jesus, whatever was they were doing, it was enough for Jesus. It was acceptable to him.

Dude: 2:31

That's so good. Uh so many things come to mind, and one of one of the things comes to mind is just the statement that has become more and prominent. It's you are enough, you are good enough, you know. Um it's we're not expected to be perfect, we just put forth the and we are enough. Um the other the other uh thought that came to my mind almost was just how that is a pattern that is repeated in the scriptures, and the the pattern the the example that came to mind is the servant. You know, one was hired at the beginning of the day, and then and then uh you know at the end of the day, and they were paid same amount. And it's just um I I see a similarity there. Yeah. So it's definitely different, but there's similar.

Woman: 3:32

Yeah. The other um point that McArthur made that I I think I've of known that there's companies that do this, but she into the idea of womanhood or motherhood as well, and that is will have a budget line item. I don't know if you have this in your company, and it's called I think it's called like professional development or I don't there's some kind of a word for it, but basically it's money in the company budget for employees to go explore different or interests or things because they feel like that will a better employee if if they're opening themselves up to new sets or new ideas. Um have you heard of this in budgets or in companies?

Dude: 4:27

Yeah, I'm yes. Now where I'm in smaller companies typically, they're just a luxury you can't afford for a startup or yeah, and yeah, in the startup world, um yeah, we generally don't have that, but in the larger organizations, yeah, that's definitely something I've seen.

Woman: 4:51

Let me ask you this as an accountant, because you know, you the one that's looking at profits and I'm sorry, I don't know words, cash flow sheets or whatever they're called.

Dude: 5:02

Balance balance sheets, cash flow, uh profit loss, yeah.

Woman: 5:07

These are words I just hear you say over the phone while I'm dinner. But um so one thing you know I I know you care about as an is it's got to pencil, right? Meaning it needs to make economic sense to justify this or whatever.

Dude: 5:25

Right.

Woman: 5:26

So let me ask you this can you see it penciling to invest in an employee to do something outside of their job description?

Dude: 5:39

Yeah, I can.

Woman: 5:41

Okay, so how? How could letting them go take a painting class or whatever? I don't know what they're doing under the company budget, but could how could developing themselves pencil for a company?

Dude: 5:58

Well, I mean it's very similar to having paid time off. You need a break, you need to be able to step away, and that makes you a better contributor, a better employee. You're more refreshed, you're more invigorated. Um so it's it's a similar thing.

Woman: 6:21

Okay, so I have a confession to make because I kind of set you

Dude: 6:25

Okay.

Woman: 6:28

So the point that McArthur makes is that when you look at women in a household in a family unit, they're really good about that budget line item for their children, soccer, piano whatever, but they tend to not as often create that line budget item for themselves as a mother and as a wife going, I need development time. And I need someone else to make dinner, I need someone else to sure the kids get to bed, so I can have some time for myself to go to this paint class or take a nap, or she told me about

Woman: I'd never heard of: 7:17

sword yoga, where you do yoga poses with

Woman: 7:22

which sounds amazing. And I'd like, I would love to have permission to wield a sword all over the place. That sounds really fun and therapeutic. I'm starting to feel in myself is that we normalize and I say even go so far as to pedestalize women who don't take themselves.

Dude: 7:48

Yeah.

Woman: 7:49

We we um, you know, young men will stand up in church and go, my mother never missed a single baseball game. And it was like, oh my gosh, what a great mom. And I'm like, you mean this mom was never never said, hey, have fun at your baseball game. I'm headed over to sword yoga. Do you see what I'm saying? Like we it's almost like we normalize or make it look like it's a virtue that someone is constantly there for other people, which is good. I think that's a good thing to do, but are you there for And I'm like, those stories I don't hear from the pulpit. My mom made sure she went to a paint class every Thursday night, no matter what us kids had on the calendar. I don't hear that story told from the pulpit.

Dude: 8:42

One of my favorite memories is us just kind of taking that bull by the horns and saying, we need some time for ourselves. And so what did we do? Uh we would get the kids to bed and we would have a little game or we would uh do our root beer floats, you know. We that that is just one of my most favorite memories, is just us being able to have the time together doing something different. And and I remember walking to the grocery store, and you know, I was like, oh, well, let's try this kind of ice cream and this kind of root beer. And we found some duds, you know, some some really bad

Woman: 9:29

In case anyone is wondering, you do not want to make a root beer float with Barq's root beer and vanilla bean ice cream. That is not a combo to do.

Dude: 9:39

Yeah, it's just wrong.

Woman: 9:40

They're fine on their own, but don't put them together. I well, and I remember a moment when one of the kids and our were little when we were doing these, I call them these date nights, where we literally couldn't afford, not only we couldn't afford to even go out and do anything.

Dude: 9:59

Right.

Woman: 9:59

And so it literally was okay, what board game do we want to play tonight and and drink our root beer and floats? That was that was our date. And I remember one of the kids got up on a step stool. I don't know, for some reason they needed to get into the freezer, which was at the top of the fridge, and they saw some vanilla cream in the back of the freezer, and he just kind of looked me and he goes, We have vanilla ice cream, like what? Because, you know, we we weren't ones to do treats a lot, and said, Oh, that's for your dad and I. And he just goes, huh? And I, you know, kind of, and I said, That's what your dad and I do while you guys are in bed for our date night. And just kind of setting that boundary, like, this isn't your ice cream. And this is this is for dad and I, this is for our special time together. And I think um I don't want to say it's hard for women to do I think it's can be hard for both men and women to do, but it's hard to set those boundaries for yourself and go, I'm not for the next two hours to anyone.

Dude: 11:15

Yeah. Well, the other thing that comes along with that is you have to intentional, purposeful, and oftentimes there's guilt associated with doing things for yourself.

Woman: 11:30

Well, it's funny you say that because that's something McArthur talked about. She said, check your guilt at the door.

Dude: 11:37

Amen.

Woman: 11:38

Yes, yep, right, yeah, like, and and I know that has been hard me to do. Well, and I brought up I told her the story about remember when I went to Haiti on the humanitarian trip, and that woman at said, Oh, I wish I could do something like that, but I love my too much.

Dude: 11:58

Yeah.

Woman: 11:59

And you know, it's it's it's kind of a funny story to laugh but I think when we make comments like that to each other, kind of implying, hey, you should feel guilty that you went to without your children for 10 days.

Dude: 12:18

Right. Which is uh uh I have words that I won't say.

Woman: 12:27

Oh, I had words too. But um, and so I think one thing we can do to help check the at the door is to support each other and encourage each other set those boundaries and say, hey, you have been just burning the candle at both ends for the last week. Let I'm gonna draw you a bath and we are not gonna bug you for the next two hours. And and just almost like saying, here, go take time for You you need this, and we need you to need it. We need you to do it too. Yeah, and not bang on the bathroom door going, Mom, I can't the you know.

Dude: 13:11

Yeah. I uh a memory comes back to mind uh one time of you requesting an a day to be able to dive into a book.

Woman: 13:24

That was my 37th birthday present.

Dude: 13:27

And do you remember that? Yeah, I'm a birthday. I do, and that was so fun to be able to just let you have that Uh I this didn't really happen, but the image that comes to is you know, feeding you grapes and and you know what's going

Woman: 13:45

Well, no, you know that you didn't you didn't feed me grapes and fan, but you came really close. So the the last very last Harry Potter book had just been the night before. So we went at midnight to get the very last Harry Potter book. We actually bought two because my son and I both wanted to it and we didn't want to wait for the other one. I remember that.

Dude: 14:08

Yep.

Woman: 14:09

And I remember just saying to you, I just want to lay in bed and read this book. And you I got home at midnight and did. I opened up the book and started reading wide away. I think I fell asleep for a couple hours, woke up, kept reading, and you literally were bringing me Perrier water and peanut MMs. It wasn't grapes in a fan, but it was awfully close. And I just you completely managed the household, and I had book finished the following morning, I think at four in the or something. And I just read all day long, playing in bed.

Dude: 14:47

But can I say I appreciate you asking for that time? And and you've asked for time like that, uh not not for a book, you have asked for time. Uh I I need a break, I need to be able to do something. And I appreciate it when you ask for that, and I am more than to serve, and and I try I don't know, I try and support you that I can. Um and I don't feel burdened, I don't feel distraught, I don't like why is she asking for time for herself? Because it's essential that you are refreshed and that you have to learn and grow, and that you feel supported. That's that's just my perspective. And so thank you for asking. And and it gives me an opportunity to serve you, which I I love being able to do that.

Woman: 15:49

So well, and I and to go back to the accounting concept of does it pencil? Like, does it pencil to let your wife lay in bed all day for 24 hours so she can read a Harry Potter book? And I would say, yeah, that pencils, like it's an investment, it feeds her soul, it gets her closer to herself, doing something she loves to do, so that on the next day she's refreshed, she's invigorated, and and can jump back in to the duties and cares that are hers.

Dude: 16:26

Yeah, well, and you're not alone, right? Uh hopefully you know that you're not alone, but that you're And no judgment. There is being able to take time for yourself, like you say, uh can be better at supporting each other rather than you know, these guilt trips. Um, I you know, I'm I'm just gonna say it going back to the Haiti comment. I was like, that is so short-sighted. They they are missing out on so much more. Um it it kind of irks me. But anyway.

Woman: 17:07

Well, I mean, imagine uh uh someone leaving their nest and up at a church pulpit and going, and my mom never went on a humanitarian trip so that she could be home with me every single day. You'd all kind of look at her like, what? Or you because I I know what a blessing it was for the kids to to be exposed to a whole nother country with different needs and different culture and different language and the stories I home and and you know I I it enriched our whole family for me to have that experience.

Dude: 17:43

100%. Yep.

Woman: 17:45

Yeah. And and I think it really catapulted getting all of our kids go out and do humanitarian trips. And you know, I showed by example that it's something you can the time to do. And and and on your side, you know, I feel like you we have kind of a joke where you need cave time, you're like, I need some cave time. And I love that I love it when you say, Hey, I've I'm going my cave, which I know means I gotta do some things just for me, you know, don't come in with questions or whatever. And and so I'm like, okay, awesome. I love knowing that you're in your cave and you're regenerating and resting, rejuvenating, whatever. And it's kind of these boundaries we set for each other hey, this is my refresh time.

Dude: 18:39

Yeah, yeah. And and I'll say the other thing is we don't abuse it.

Woman: 18:46

Yeah.

Dude: 18:47

Because I I think that that can be a crutch and and something people abuse to get out of, I don't know, relationships but uh Or tasks or responsibilities or Yeah.

Woman: 19:03

Yeah. And yeah, and I think I I'd like to think that had either of us done that, we would have let each other know, don't you think?

Dude: 19:16

I think.

Woman: 19:16

If it was starting to feel excessive or like it was I would so.

Dude: 19:22

I mean we we talk all the time and we bring stuff up, so I it seems I mean we're we're open with each other, so it doesn't seem like it's something we'd be carrying around as baggage of like,

Woman: 19:36

Well, I think going back to that accounting principle of does it pencil, it's like because imagine an employee saying, Hey, for this line item of personal development. Okay, I'm gonna go for two years on a Tibetan hike, and you they're like, Well, no, we can't have you gone for two years. We need work from you. We're not gonna pay, you know. So, I mean, I think it's gotta pencil again, right? It's gotta truly rejuvenate you so that you can be someone who to the family unit. Um, but if it's creating a drain on the family unit or drain on resources, then it then I guess it's quote, not penciling,

Dude: 20:20

Yeah. Yep.

Woman: 20:22

Yeah. So it's it's like this accounting principle without an accounting principle, I guess.

Dude: 20:30

Well, it's a life principle. Isn't it in the scriptures? You know, the seventh day is a day of rest. There's there's yeah a break, right?

Woman: 20:39

Yeah. And if if God had rested all seven days, there'd be no earth.

Dude: 20:46

Yeah.

Woman: 20:48

We we wouldn't have giraffes. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me about McArthur. It was such a delight to chat with her and um yeah, it's it's been a treat.

Dude: 21:06

Uh, and your conversation with her just brought up some great and things to talk about. So it's been great.

Woman: 21:15

Okay, I love you, dude.

Dude: 21:17

Love you too, woman.