Liahni: 0:04

Okay, you know I'm judging you right now.

Heather: 0:06

Please judge.

Liahni: 0:07

Judge away.

Heather: 0:10

And and and do you want to hear something you want to hear that makes it even worse? What? My d my dad was raised Catholic. I should have known better.

Liahni: 0:22

Mine too. Oh my goodness. Oh dear. That is so funny, Heather.

Heather: 0:30

I'm Heather Ruth Pack, and this is the Approachable Jesus, a of Faith production. Jesus can feel distant. The people of the Bible lived in a different world, a time, but their times of faith weren't all that different ours. And that's what we're going to talk about. I'm glad you're here. Welcome to the Approachable Jesus. I'm Heather Ruth Pack, and today we are talking about following Jesus in unexpected ways. My guest is Liahni Chandler. Thank you for joining me, Liahni.

Liahni: 1:02

Thank you, Heather. This is a great opportunity. I know that you'll introduce the topic, but this has an opportunity to think about this story differently and to really review it and say, how does this apply to me today? So thank you for that.

Heather: 1:18

Oh, good. I'm happy to hear that. So I'm really excited to chat with Liahni today because she's of these people in my life where we get each other like so few other people do. And that's because we grew up in the same hometown. And so we grew up looking at the same sunsets, eating the same green chili, and attending the same church meetings. And so I just feel like there is something special about that are born from your childhood.

Liahni: 1:50

I'd agree. I mean, there's history there. There's a common commonality in so many things that think and and our views very similar, even though our are so different, right?

Heather: 2:04

Yeah. And and I feel like there's a there's just a natural shorthand language that evolves from when you grew up in the same You just kind of get the the way that you process certain or certain experiences. You just don't even have to say it out loud, I think, because it's like, yeah, we get the You know, you and I grew up in a uh town in a big desert.

Liahni: 2:30

And um it was a place where I think we just needed each We always found um things to do. We had to be creative, and there was a bond there, right? We just each one of us in um growing up in the same church, right? We needed each other. So yeah, I I loved growing up in in New Mexico.

Heather: 2:54

And and I know you have felt this as I have, that your congregation was your family.

Liahni: 3:02

Oh, 100%. And you know, Heather, we've known each other since we were kids. We're still in contact with each other. We still want to hang out with each other. Yeah. It means something.

Heather: 3:14

Yeah. Well, let me tell everyone a little bit about Liahni. She's an executive management professional and a double survivor who leads with purpose, gratitude, and a passion developing people and serving others. Throughout her career, she has led teams and driven across healthcare, nonprofit, legal, and corporate You are definitely um what I consider a renaissance woman or of all trades, I think, because you just you can hop from industry to the other seamlessly and just jump right in a difference. I'm so impressed by that.

Liahni: 3:54

Oh, you are very nice.

Heather: 3:58

Her journey as a two-time recipient of the gift of life has her resilience, compassion, and the importance of looking beyond ourselves. She strives every day to, this is gonna make me cry. She strives every day to honor her liver and kidney donors their families by living a life of service, gratitude, and impact. In their darkest hour, they chose humanity. This is the example she now follows. And I just want everyone to know she absolutely does do this. She lives not just for herself, but for two other people just a beautiful gift so that she can be on this earth. And you honor them frequently. And I just imagine them being so proud that you carry their of life.

Liahni: 5:00

I really hope so. Um there will be tears today, Heather. Um, two strangers who just chose to be donors impacted my and that's happening every day. But I really do try to honor them and their families every that I live. And I live differently now. I every morning I get up and honestly, they're the first ones I think of. And I I kind of say a prayer every morning saying thank Thank you for another day. Without your huge gift, I wouldn't be here. And I know that that sacrifice came at a great expense. So yes, I want to live a better life for them. And I hope, I hope that that they can see that.

Heather: 5:50

Yeah, I I can't imagine that they cannot because just all of who know you, we see it. We see in in your personality, but we see it in your in your actions. Um, you you know that saying, put your money where your is, you absolutely do that when it comes to honoring um the donors that have given you life.

Liahni: 6:16

Oh, I'm so grateful. I am grateful.

Heather: 6:19

Thank you for being such a great example of encouraging. I think if anyone is struggling or trying to decide be an organ donor, I say just give Liahni five minutes.

Liahni: 6:35

It's true. Uh it's um I know that there are different views about an organ donor. And, you know, you can do it on your driver's license and and those things. But I I just hope that people truly consider what they can for others. Um, this was was a very, very um good decision that that made. And I don't know if they ever knew that they would become a superhero to somebody else. And so it's a great consideration. It's a hard one, and it comes with a lot of grief and a lot of sacrifice. But I know myself and and every other transplant individual out there, we're grateful you've saved our lives. And truly, I understand the word savior a lot better these I get it.

Heather: 7:33

Oh, that's thank you. That's beautiful. Well, speaking of the savior, um, today's conversation is to the story of Mary and Martha, who welcomed Jesus and his into their home in Bethany. As Martha busied herself with the work of hosting, Mary sat Jesus' feet, listening to him teach. Martha asks Jesus to tell Mary to help her. Jesus answers by saying that Martha is troubled by many and Mary has chosen the good part. So when you read the story of Mary and Martha, what are some or some ideas that come to your mind?

Liahni: 8:12

Mary and Martha represent two different mindsets for me. And I remember growing up and being very conflicted by this story. Like, I personally think that I would have been a Mary. But I do remember having conversations with my mother and her best friend about how Martha was really the true example. So I will say that growing up, there was confusion the example that we are supposed to learn from this story. But for me, now in my adult life, I look at them as

Liahni: of both sides: 8:53

service versus learning and um curiosity and

Liahni: 9:03

moving forward. And now I view the story as I think there needs to be a between both, both of those mindsets. What do you think?

Heather: 9:14

I have picked this story apart so many different ways that probably just in tiny little pieces on my desk now at this Because I feel like there's so many different ways to look at it. And I've just come to the conclusion there really is as read this story, whatever speaks to them, whatever or feelings come up for them, that's the truth. That's that's what they need to get out of that story. And um I I think service takes on many different forms. And I I think we don't really mention much about Mary in this moment. It looks almost like how she's chosen not to serve by s by the religious discussion at the table instead of doing what traditionally did at that time, which was one, you did not religious discussions with men. Two, you did not talk to your dinner guests um as a woman you talked to them as if you were a servant.

Liahni: 10:25

Right.

Heather: 10:26

And and three, Martha was the householder, she was in charge. She needed, I mean, she probably had around eight servants her, but she wanted, I think. I mean, Martha doesn't weigh in on the story personally, think she wanted it to look good, right?

Liahni: 10:47

Well, of course. I mean, um the the the context of that time frame Mary's all the rules, right? Yes. And we we love Mary for that. But I mean, I I look at Martha and I think, okay, she had a responsibility, right? She had a guest in her home. She was responsible for feeding the men and making certain they were served and that everything was comfortable. And that was the norm, right? And she had servants to do that with her. And I think that when you're thinking about what is the you do get into a habit. And I was thinking about Martha just going, huh. Martha wasn't unprepared in any way, shape, or form. She was prepared to serve and and and take on the the guests in the house. But she got flummoxed, right? When Mary like cut out and did her thing. And I got to thinking about if we are constantly serving thinking about the look of things, the way that things be, we can oftentimes maybe miss the point of the service we're providing. And so, and what I'm what I mean by that is yes, our Martha was serving and she was doing that. But because she was so in tune with that, she couldn't see Mary was trying to do, right? She wanted Mary to fall in line. And in today's world, I was thinking about this. I have friends who want to do service projects that are by the church that they belong to, right? And I have always loved serving others and I have throughout my life, but I have never chosen an organization that my church has outlined because I want to be the community. So I kept, I was thinking about my friends going, okay, if we are only serving the way that is being outlined for us, are we missing opportunities to impact other people? Maybe, right? And so I look at Martha and go, dang it, she was obedient, was doing what she needed to do. But what is stopping her from actually maybe ever wanting to learn and sit at the feet of and learn, you know, of so I I'm kind of torn with with with Martha and looking at today um we can get so tied into service that are we are we just the actions or are we doing it with love? Are we doing it with purpose? Are we stopping to see what the service does for other Yeah. I don't know.

Heather: 13:55

Well, and you've worked with nonprofits. I I have too. I've done a lot of studying and consulting for nonprofit And I'm sure you, like me, have noticed that there's very people and they have a big heart, and sometimes they have a big pocketbook, and they go out, and the service they do creates unintended consequences that does not one, meet they initially had, and two, sometimes can make it worse for people that they're serving.

Liahni: 14:33

That is true. That is true. So we do have to look at the type of service that we do and understand impact. And you know, I think that we don't always stop and and what is it that you need? What can we help with? Right. We kind of prescribe in our heads this is what needs to be

Heather: 14:55

Yeah. Yeah, I remember um I so I've I've done some volunteer work in Haiti, and as a result, um, someone found me and had really great idea of what he wanted to do in Haiti, and he this was the problem with the Haitian education system, and he was gonna fix it. And so he calls me up and um I asked him like three questions, and he went, Oh, never mind, thank you. I just I didn't want to discourage him from helping, but it like, let's do no harm, you know, and let's not make anyone feel like a project, or let's not keep people in the situation they are in. Let's lift. And um, and that's where I feel like Mary was serving that is that her service was showing everyone in that room different that they had never seen before.

Liahni: 15:58

I agree with that.

Heather: 16:00

And and I just can't imagine anyone at that dinner that walked away unchanged as a result of having seen something so outside of the norm for a woman to be in a religious with a m a rabbi, a male inside of a home, inside of a home as the householder, that had to have just been so Um have you seen people kind of do those radical things or of radical service, I guess we could call it?

Liahni: 16:38

You know what? I have seen a lot of different things for sure. And I do think that Mary was very radical. Um, I think she was listening to her heart and wanting And the challenge for Mary would then be what do I do with knowledge? How do I put that into action? And I think that that is the same for us today. I work for the Ronald McDonald House, and every day um we people who are donating time or donating toys or donating money. Or I mean, honestly, in a world that we live in today, we have a front row seat to the best of humanity.

Heather: 17:22

Tell us about the Ronald McDonald House. For those who're not familiar with that nonprofit, what service that organization provides?

Liahni: 17:31

Sure. So the Ronald McDonald House is a global charity. And our focus is providing a home away from home, that we actually focus on um children who have pediatric care needs, catastrophic needs, right? And typically you need to be about 50 or 60 miles away from the hospital that you're you're being treated in. And for those individuals, we provide a place for We feed them three times a day, we provide activities, we've partnered with local um uh organizations like the and the zoo. They give us free tickets so that the kids and their families can go and have a good time. And so the whole point of what we're doing is, man, if anybody has ever had family members or themselves who've had health issues, there is a toll, a toll physically, mentally, spiritually, um, emotionally. And we're trying to take away the physical needs. We're gonna give you a place to live, we're gonna feed you, and then hopefully that reduces some stress so the families can focus on treatment and focus on their child. And so it's a big organization, we are worldwide, and is a joy to watch um these kids and to get to know And in a lot of ways, I can relate. And honestly, my transplants um actually changed my I was a corporate girl, and then after the transplants, I'm like, I gotta find work where I'm serving other people, led to other things and ultimately to working at the Ronald McDonald house. Have we seen radical things? Yeah, we really have. And I I'm gonna tell you about this one donor who is not, kind of an introvert, and she inherited a lot of money, and she doesn't spend the money, but she believes in being and so she approached us, and and we were thinking about a park for the children, so she sponsored the whole park so that the kids could actually play outside and have a and and do so many things. And her love for the great outdoors is what pushed her to uh a space so the kids could play and um be outdoors. And we now have this gorgeous park that has a splash pad it, and we've got uh water features and we've got picnic all because someone wanted to give. And I'm just always amazed at what people want to give. And then we just have people who are like, they call us say, What can we do? And they uh we have a group of girls who are probably the ages of 16 and 18 who come and they make lunch for or provide dinners. And it's just the little things because they want to give. And those aren't necessarily radical, but I don't every one of us stops and thinks about it. And I don't know if this girl is still serving, but we had a young Jewish girl who was getting ready for her bat mitzvah and her rap. I said, I'd really love for you to actually get some service time in before we have your big ceremony. So she came to Ronald McDonald's house and she ended up a week reading stories to the kids and making friendship with the kids. And I mean, just the smallest things make a huge So I think I look at the individuals that serve and volunteer their time or their money, and I'm like, they're the norm because they want to help somebody in a different And I can't say that all of us do that, especially the youth. I love Love seeing the youth come in.

Heather: 22:03

So when you say the kids, are you talking about the siblings the one who has the catastrophic illness?

Liahni: 22:12

So a lot of the kids, when they're the ones that have the and we have a lot of kids who have cardiac issues or are for transplants or have cancer, all of these different a lot of them do reside in the hospitals while they're treatments. And yeah, their parents and their siblings reside with us. But the children that are also impacted reside with us as well because some of them are well enough to be outside the and they go in for chemotherapy, but they stay with us they're healing during episodes, you know, that kind of So it's it's kind of a combination of all things.

Heather: 22:52

So if you're a sibling or if you are the one with the are you served equally at the Ronald McDonald House? In other words, um, do they all get tickets to the zoo? Do they all get tickets to make friendship bracelets? Okay.

Liahni: 23:08

They do. The parents too. Everybody's invited. This it's it's serving everyone that resides in the house.

Heather: 23:17

As someone who, you know, has done quite a bit of nonprofit let me just tell you what I think the mindset might be of some people versus what you're saying, and that is, well, it's the sick kid who needs the service, it's the sick child that the money for medical care. Do you see what I'm saying? And so the sibling is a healthy, active child. Why does he need to get a zoo ticket? Why, why are we helping the healthy child? It's the sick child that needs the money. Have you ever seen that kind of attitude or any any of that of pushback? And if if not, what would you say to someone who's thinking in that moment?

Liahni: 24:00

You know what, we really haven't seen that type of attitude, or I haven't, right? Um when someone is ill in a family, it impacts the entire And we do actually have social workers that are part of our staff who actually work with the family, not just the sick right? So I have been having conversations for months now with families who've been with us for a while a while. We have one family that's probably been with us going on eight months, and um their kid has had a bone marrow transplant, he's the most amazing child ever. But we try to treat everybody. Um, we actually provide help with the social workers. We provide activities so that everyone can kind of heal. And then parents are hugely impacted spiritually, emotionally. And we actually have what's called a sanctuary. It's a it's a very peaceful place where parents can go can go, siblings can go there, they can, there's a room where they can just sit and think, they can have prayer meetings there if they want to. It's a place where they can find peace. So we I really haven't had too many um individuals who've us serving the entire family because one child is sick, impacts everyone. And I have worked with that one child who's had cancer and you know what? Talking with the siblings is they're impacted too, right? I um asked one of the siblings how you handling it, and he I don't know. I keep asking, why him? Why my brother? Right? And so yeah, it's not just a sick kid, it's their brothers sisters and their parents. So we have to focus on the entire family.

Heather: 26:12

I I remember visiting with a mother in my neighborhood whose had um uh uh an illness of cancer, and it was very long drawn out. We're talking bone marrow transplant, did the make a wish trip. I mean, like very high public citywide fundraisers, the gamut. And she made a comment that I thought was really interesting. She says, My other children, no one asks them how When when the public comes to the ch sibling, they want to know how the sick child is doing. How's your brother doing? How's your brother doing? And she goes, Doesn't anyone care how they're doing? You know, and it just it becomes their identity that they're sister brother of sick child name here. You know, that's their new.

Liahni: 27:12

Do you know what? There's there's a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress for that are caretakers or those who are family. Um, you know, I know that when um I had my liver transplant, um, oh gosh, um, I didn't have any family around. And I had some amazing friends step up to help me. They took me to doctors' appointments and to took me in and out of the hospital. They let me recover in their home after the transplants. And and rarely did anyone ask how they were doing, and I could see the toll it was taking on them. They stepped up when they didn't have to, and then no one took care of them. And it was hard to watch. It was really hard to watch. We had a lot of great talks about it, but it was a toll, a big one.

Heather: 28:08

Yeah, I think that's what makes Jesus' response to Martha so for me. Yes, is I feel like instead of jumping down her throat and hey Martha, you've got eight servants, knock it off. You don't need one more person to help peel the potatoes. He, I feel like what he did is he clocked that there was a lot more going on with Martha than what it seems like in the of the story, where he says, You know, you're troubled over lot of things. There's a lot going on in that mind of yours. And and I felt like he saw the situation for what it really was for Martha. And and in a way, I've it to me, it almost seems like he was Look, I know this is stressing you out, I know this is for you. You're trying to take care of everyone in this room, and you everyone comfortable, and Mary's doing something that might be making some people in the room uncomfortable. But you don't have anything to worry about. What Mary's doing is just fine. Let me ease your anxiety, let me ease what you're feeling. And as you're talking about the Ronald McDonald house, I feel like, you know, you said, well, we take care of the physical and I would say, Oh, but you're also taking care of the and emotional.

Liahni: 29:27

Yeah.

Heather: 29:28

Because I would just imagine the anxiety level of these who are scared and moved out of their support system.

Liahni: 29:38

There they are. They're terrified. They're away from family, they're away from their friends. Um, and it's super hard, right? So um, yeah, we do try to take care of it. And by the way, you know, all of our services are free. Everything we do is based on fundraising and donations. So we are powered by humanity. We are powered by the goodness of other people to do what doing. And so when we talk about service, coming and working in a world, I'm learning to be a better human. I'm learning to listen to what the trials are of other people. And Mary stopped and said, I'm gonna be different. I'm going to sit and listen and learn. And hopefully that will make a difference in my life. And I feel like as you expose yourself to service and it impacts you in a great way. My heart is softer. I am grateful every day. I look around and I'm watching these families bond helping each other go through traumatic experiences. And seeing them in recovery, especially mentally. I've seen a lot of families that are seriously sad all And then there are the days where they're just bright and And I'm like, they had a great day. And those moments are brilliant, but it's all because making connections. They have resources that they otherwise wouldn't have. We've seen too many families and people lose their They can't work because they're away from home. And and uh and knowing that there are human beings out that are willing to serve, donate, and a staff who is at fundraising so we can prov provide that, provide the it's miraculous. It is changing my life. And when I look at Mary, I'm going, Mary, that's the example. That's the example that I want to follow. Do I also want to follow a little bit of Martha? I do, because she had responsibility, right? She loved to have things in order, but there has to be a between those two.

Heather: 32:08

Well, and and Martha, frankly, just had a different role Mary did. Yep. As the householder. She was just in a different position. When I sit in Sunday School and we do the Mary Martha lesson, I'm like, there's really a key part that I feel like we just of gloss over or don't even mention at all. And um, I don't know if you remember growing up hearing Paul on the radio where he'd say, Oh yeah, and now for the rest the story. Yeah. Those were my favorite parts where it was like, now let me you what happened afterwards, right? Yeah. And and I wish Paul Harvey could kind of jump into the Bible go, and now for the rest of the story, because we see Martha so incredibly devoted to Christ throughout the rest of his We see undying devotion and love and doesn't leave his side at his crucifixion. We could say, well, he was chastising her or he was correcting her, or maybe even just making her look at things a way than she was looking at it, and none of that stopped her being devoted to him.

Liahni: 33:17

Right. There was no offense from Martha because I think it was his approach, right? Yeah. There was no chastisement, there was no judgment. It's like, you're doing the right thing, Martha, and so is Let's move forward.

Heather: 33:31

Yeah. Kind of that, yes, and yes, you are you are correct. And so is Mary. Mary. Yeah, good point. Good point. Yeah. That is true. You mentioned how you feel like you've been drawn to service outside of the what was church suggested, I guess you would service within the church structure. What can you think of some other ways that you've served or found opportunities that maybe your church community or your family wasn't really doing?

Liahni: 34:08

Well I I will say this. I think that, well, growing up outside of the state of as a Latter-day Saint taught me that living with others in religions and understanding their different views do, I just got more exposed to different thought, right? Yeah. And these are people I love and adore and who've been great friends and examples to me, but are not of the same faith. And um, and I just remember uh that there were always projects that the church would line up. And a lot of them had to do with like, let's go help Sister So and So clean her yard. Or remember those. Right. And or let's go clean somebody's house, which you and I done in the past, right? I think we've done the same house. Yeah. I know. So, and it was typically serving people of our own faith. But for me, I have always thought that we were taught that we wanted to share belief. We wanted to share a belief in Christ. But for me, it was always like, well, why are we doing it ourselves? If we want to have an impact on the world, why are we ourselves to just serving ourselves? So, you know, growing up, I was active in high school doing different things. I volunteered for the um oh little brothers little sisters I did volunteer work for the school board when I was in high school. Uh, and when I was in college, I did um work with uh Brothers Little Sisters. And when I got back, I looked for other organizations. And since my when I moved to Utah, I started working or at the Ronald McDonald House, and that was like 10 years but I still kept working and I just showed up once a week. And after I actually um got my transplants, I worked with a group called Help Hope Live, and they're a group that money for people who have catastrophic illnesses and who are losing their homes, right? I've it I've done work with um the national um for organ donations. Locally, I do volunteer work still with a group called Donor Connect, and they're the ones that actually are the ones that go out and harvest the organs. They're the ones that work with the donor families, what's going on, see if they're the ones, if they'd be in organ donation. They find out if these patients are organ donors. And so I try my best to give back to the people who saved my life because Donor Connect found two organs for me to my life. So I want to serve my community, not just the people of my religion. It's important for me to set an example because if I truly what um I believe, and if I truly love the Lord, it's about impacting community, not just the people that are similar to me. It's important to me to distinguish that.

Heather: 37:32

We grew up as a minority in our religion. Um the the Catholic faith was very predominant. In fact, I'll be honest, I didn't know. I thought it was a school thing to have fish on Fridays. I thought every school kid across the United States had fish on Fridays because that's what the schools wanted. I didn't know that was a Catholic thing. That is hilarious.

Liahni: 38:04

Oh my word. That is hilarious. I I don't even want to admit to you how old I was when I out that that was not a school policy. That is too funny. And you know what, we were involved in it and didn't even aware, right?

Heather: 38:24

Yeah, we're we were just eating our fish on Fridays. I'll be honest, I thought it was because fish and Friday both started with F. Okay, you know I'm judging you right now.

Liahni: 38:37

Please judge. Judge away. And and you want to hear some?

Heather: 38:42

Do you want to hear something that makes it even worse? What? My dad my dad was raised Catholic. I should have known better.

Liahni: 38:53

Mine too. Oh my goodness. Oh dear. That is so funny, Heather.

Heather: 39:00

Honestly, I think what it did though is it I I gained a sense of what it's like to live in a community that practices practices that are not my own. You know what I mean? Like we know what it feels like to be on the outside looking in and going. I mean, I I don't know about you, but like in high school the the 40 days of Lent, I think I knew what every single was giving up for Lent because they sure talked about it day.

Liahni: 39:36

They did. They shared all of it. I've given up sugar, I'm not doing soda, yeah, whatever.

Heather: 39:42

I I've given up cussing, I've given up, yeah. So I feel like I we grew up kind of with this sense of here's what other religious practice looks like that is not your And then what do what do you and I do? We move to a community where now it's normal what the practices are. No activities on Monday nights and stores are closed on and all of a sudden there's these social constructs designed to help support the majority religion. Don't you feel like that made us a little more attuned to it's like to not be a Latter-day Saint in Utah?

Liahni: 40:22

Oh, 100%. You know what I feel like because we grew up outside of the common church here in Utah, that we had to be stronger. We had to really figure out is this what I believe? Is this the commitment of my parents? Is this going to be my commitment? Right. And because there were other thoughts, the other religions we were exposed to. And so um I remember being in high school when people to drink and and and party and do all of those things. And I was like, is that what I want? Right. And I'm like, do I want to live my religion? Because there are definitely some things that we were were not great for us. It was easier because um I knew that, yeah, I'm gonna stick out like a sore thumb. We all did because we were in the minority. But I had to make that choice. And uh that was easier, I think, for me. It taught me that I had to be strong, I had to find And I remember coming up to Brigham Young University, my semester, and meeting some individuals who were also my but were a little more wild than me. And people here, I was judged for being a goody two shoes. So I will tell you, it's been very strange to come. And I'm like, you find out, oh, they didn't grow up in that environment that you and I did where they had to find that

Heather: 41:59

I I'm gonna say something kind of radical, I think, and and me whether you felt this too.

Liahni: 42:05

I expect that from you.

Heather: 42:07

I felt a sense of comfort in standing out like a sore thumb. I it almost was it was easy, I think, to be that Mormon I think people almost pre-decided for me what parties I and couldn't go to. So I didn't have to choose. They would be like, Oh, Heather, we're having this party, yeah, you're not gonna want to be there, which was code four. There's gonna be a lot of beer flowing. And um, and I had friends who would say, Oh, I'm having a party, and I told my mom we can't have it on Sunday so that you can come. So like I wasn't even having to choose whether I should go the birthday party or not, because it was like, oh, the Mormon girl needs we need if we want her there, we gotta do this. And I was over there like, I think my mom would let me go to a Sunday birthday party, but I didn't want to tell them that you know they had changed their birthday party. And I um and so I almost felt like there was a little bit of buffer or a comfort in just being this odd one where I quote the Mormon card and no one questioned it.

Liahni: 43:19

You know what? You bring up a good point. That is true, and it was really interesting to see how your friends supported you in that way, right? Yeah. Um, I do remember going to one party and I went because I the designated driver. And FYI, I always got calls on the weekend to pick people but I didn't always go to the party, right? But this time I was like, I'll just go and then I'll drive home. I got there and everyone was like, Why are you here? And then one of my best guy friends, he's like, Turn around. This is not for you. I'm like, but I'm driving these people home. And he's like, I'll go, I'll drive them home. I'm like, Oh, yeah. So I he made me go home. Yep. Yeah. Crazy. But you're right.

Heather: 44:05

Well, I I here's a here's a funny story. So back in the 80s, there was definitely a social practice the LDS of not drinking caffeinated sodas. You know, we we we would not drink coke, we would not drink and or whatever caffeinated sodas there was out there. But in our family, we did. I we drank Pepsi like it flowed like water in our house. I would go to parties and they would say, Oh Heather, since don't drink Pepsi, we got some Sprite for you. Because they just had heard Mormons don't drink caffeinated And so they would get the token Sprite for the Mormon girl. I hated Sprite.

Liahni: 44:54

Yeah, yeah, I don't like Sprite either.

Heather: 44:56

So I didn't know what to do. So I'm just getting myself my glass of gross spy sprite. No offense to Sprite. I'm sure you're a lovely drink. But but like it was almost to the point where it's like, well, since you don't do this because you are of this religion, we made this accommodation for you. And you're like, thank you.

Liahni: 45:15

Yeah. That's so funny.

Heather: 45:20

That's but it was very normal to be the only one in a room practiced a certain religion. Very normal.

Liahni: 45:28

Very, very normal to us. But yeah, it did teach us that we had to, you know, stand up for who we were, and people did support it, which I think in today's world, so many people are afraid to say who they are or stand up for what they believe because they think it's going to be offensive to other people. But I think you'll be surprised. I mean, you and I were supported by people around us that have the same beliefs. If they know you, they love you and they will support you. And I I believe that in our political world and different we don't have to think the same things. If you love that person, you know them, I think that you'll find support, right?

Heather: 46:11

Well, do you feel like growing up in such a minority as a has of has um impacted how you perceive different ways of the religion in in in Utah?

Liahni: 46:27

Oh, yeah, I do. Growing up at LDS, growing up half Korean, half Puerto Rican, which by the way, there weren't other of my ethnic background. Um, you kind of stand out, right? And and it was interesting. Uh growing up, uh, people would say, I don't know any Mormons. How is it that you guys are Mormon, right? And I got that here when I moved to Utah as well. So that's been the same, but I would say in Utah, as as we um to find a different kind of balance, it's been harder me. I'm not gonna lie. I I uh I'm not as active as I I have been in church uh in the past. Uh there's a lot of judgment in that I think that level that we need to adhere to here to actually feel like kind of match up. And I never felt that uh in New Mexico and even in Chicago, right? Here it's like there's so many people with the same faith that we all have to be doing service. We all have to be doing, we all have to have similar or we've got to do different things. And I find that very exhausting, right? And I find that a lot of folks here, their families are here, so they're spending lots and lots of times with their I don't have any, you know, direct family members here. So I end up spending a lot of time alone, so that's also different. And in New Mexico, my family wasn't large, but guess what? I had church family, so I felt like I was never alone. So that's been very, very different. So I don't know. I think that um being around individuals of our same faith very comforting and it's great, but it also brings on challenges, right? Um, we have different levels of faith here.

Heather: 48:40

In Jesus' time, you had the Pharisee sect, the Sadducee sect, you had zealots, you had Essenes, and they all practiced from the law of Moses. So they all perceived it differently. Even the Samaritans um ascribed to the Torah and had what we would consider to be Jewish or Hebraic traditions. And so you look at all these different ways that they were going off of the same scripture, all going off of the same but yet they expressed it so differently. And I feel like that's I I felt like I was coming from a sect, being from southern New Mexico. Yep. And all of a sudden I'm coming and seeing, whoa, you guys differently. You don't church how I church.

Liahni: 49:37

It was an eye-opener for sure.

Heather: 49:40

One thing I you know, you talk about at in our hometown being part of a church family. I would say that was probably the number one eye-opening I had moving to Utah was um I was used to you spent Fourth of July, Labor Day, all the all the Monday holidays, Memorial you spent with your ward. That was that was ward day. And I have memories on Labor Day, the the men would lay all green chilies out on the grass and you would burn the chilies with the blowtorch. I can still smell that burnt grass. Right. You know, and and all the women are peeling the chilies while the men are blowtorching them and and we're watching the Lewis marathon. Oh, I forgot about Jerry Lewis. Yeah, that was Labor Day. You spent it with your ward family.

Liahni: 50:34

Yep. And rather we did camping trips together and we did heal a trips together. Oh, yeah. We did everything with the church family. Yep. So it's very different here.

Heather: 50:47

And I think um it's really kind of like looking at Mary and It's like, well, Martha was in a different position, she was do needing to do what she did. Mary was in a different position. She was doing what she needed to do. And and I think it comes to we just need to say, this is a culture here. There are family units here, and those Monday holidays are important to the to the families, and we can't judge them go, well, but let's do a board dinner and we want you all to They're not gonna come, it wouldn't happen.

Liahni: 51:21

One one thing that I've been thinking as I I read the study materials that you so brilliantly put together. I just kept thinking about what does it mean to us today? And you know, we've got social media in our in our view day, and I got to thinking about Martha's of the And in today I've noticed that people love to serve, provide meals to the homeless, make a video of it, and post. I think that um are you doing it just so that you can show how great you are? Are you missing the point of service is service and there need to be a reward, right? So I struggle with that, and then I see on the merry side who are so intellectual, so into the books and analyzing that there's no action behind it. Like, what do you do with this knowledge now? How do you apply it and helping the world? And when I started thinking about what does it really me today, I've got to be careful. I don't, you know, there are a million things that that I see every day in my work area where people are giving service, and I see them doing it quietly, right? I love that. And I also have people that I work with that are so smart have been doing service work forever, and they're sharing knowledge freely. And that's the type of example that I want because I've troubled by these videos over and over and over again. I'm just like, okay, I guess we all think you're a good I'm glad, but I I see people giving individual homeless money to stay in a hotel. I'm like, for how long? And then they're just back out on the street again. So that kind of is what you were talking about is what is long-term impact? Right. So in today's world, I'm really now, because of this to study, Mary and Martha, going, what does it mean in today? How do we apply a balance and not go overboard? Intellect is great, knowledge is great, but what are you with the knowledge? And service is great if we're focused in the right area.

Heather: 53:54

When I teach this module in my classes, people kind of turn into this discussion of are you a Mary or are you a Martha? I just don't see it as an either-or situation. I see it more as a yes and situation. I'll just give you, I'll be raw with you for a minute. So when I was a little girl, like 11, my girlfriends and I, used to go to a nursing home. We would just chat with them about how school was going, or don't know. We'd just talk to them about anything. And they loved us. They were so excited when we came. And then years later, I was a BYU student and we had an to go and visit with people in a nursing home. And I was so excited because I was like, oh, I know how gonna go, it's gonna be wonderful. Oh no, it was horrible. And I mean, here was a whole bunch of BYU college students, shiny, eager little golden retriever energy kids. And we descend upon this nursing home and we just scatter and go into all these rooms, and I go in to sit down with a and I I start talking to her the way I used to with my people years before. She just turned and looked at me, she goes, Woman, shut up. Oh, wow. She wasn't having it, and I was devastated, you know. But here's what I learned. We weren't really serving, we weren't developing relationships. We were just going to do something to frankly make us feel we had done something, and we were disrupting their nights, we were disrupting their routine, they didn't know us from It was so different from me from a little 11-year-old where we were consistently going, where they knew us and expected us, we had developed these relationships. We had earned the right to sit down. We were a one and done. We're gonna come in, take and talk about how wonderful it was we all visited you all. And I I could tell this woman just didn't need a visitor night. She was probably in pain, and she knew she was never gonna see me again. And and what that feedback gave me was Heather, be careful. Don't assume somebody needs what it is you want to give. And read the room.

Liahni: 56:20

That's poignant. I while you're talking, I there is an example of of service that was anonymous for years. So my family moved to Las Cruces from South Korea, right? My dad was military, my mom's cute little uh Korean lady, we moved there and we really didn't know that many people. And then my dad continued to work abroad, so he wasn't with us all the time. So kind of a my mom was a single mom for the majority of the year. And when I was little, um, we got a knock on the door. I must have been at five or six, something like that. It was around Thanksgiving time, and um there was and some um ingredients for mashed potatoes and stuffing, And that knock came for 20 years. We never ever knew until I was probably, I don't know, my year of college where it finally slipped, who it was. And the family was devastated that we had found out. But they had decided as a family that this cute little Korean mom needed help. And so they were consistent, they were loving, and this this family, even their kids left, and even this went on missions, but that not came even though they were because they assigned their family members to do it for my and us. And that's the kind of service that will always, always me, and I'll always remember how beautiful that was. And um I I can't even begin to tell you how much that to my family. They knew that we needed help. They didn't ask, right? And they just said, we're gonna do this, we're gonna be until I mean at some point we didn't really necessarily it anymore, right? And by the way, that first that first time my mom is turkey. I don't even know how to cook a turkey, but yeah, she got she got good at it. But that's the kind of service that just knocked me off my going, How are people so kind and so generous?

Heather: 58:53

As you're telling this story, it reminds me of that do unto others as you would have others do unto you. And I think, I'll be honest, I feel like sometimes we or kind of miss the mark on that scripture, in that we look at it as do unto others what you want people to do to you. And I think it's more like what you just described as do unto others as if that was you. Yeah. And and so it's not a question of, well, I would love to someone come and visit me in the nursing home and spend an with me. So obviously, if I go do it, they're gonna love it just as as I would. No, that woman didn't love it. But I think what what um this family looked at was here's a outside of their cultural norm. You know, this mother is now in a foreign country, and like, and we have a traditional practice that they may And if I was in a situation where I was so far removed from my my normal, what would help me feel like I belonged and I fit What can we do to help them feel that way too? And that's what they did.

Liahni: 1:00:11

They did we felt loved every year, and we were so grateful. It would bring my mother to tears every year. And we did find out that other families knew, but they also kept the secret. And I just was like, How do you do that? But all of those folks who made my mother feel welcome, I always be grateful for that.

Heather: 1:00:34

That that's such a beautiful story, and I think it's lesson on figuring out for ourselves what true service looks And they weren't doing it for clicks and views, they weren't they weren't dropping the food off and then turning the camera on themselves, going, like and subscribe for more, right? Of course, that didn't exist back then, but but they they it anonymous. They wanted, they didn't want the big thank you notes, they want you to feel obligated to them in any way. They truly wanted to give for giving sake.

Liahni: 1:01:09

And they were they were great friends to my mother. I mean, we'd have dinners at their house or they'd come over and and it was about the friendship. And I look back at that and go, that was a great example of being committed to a long-term project. They didn't have to do it, but they did. They chose it.

Heather: 1:01:31

Well, Liahni, um, thank you so much for spending this time with me. I of course, thank you. You know, I this this is it's hard to keep this short because our brunches go way longer than this.

Liahni: 1:01:41

I know. Thanks for this opportunity, though. It's really made me stop and think about what does this mean to me? How can I actually cinch it up and be better?

Heather: 1:01:53

Yeah, well, thank you. Well, I don't know. I you're to me, you're you're you're rocking it. So um well, if anyone is interested in organ donation or in the Ronald McDonald House, we will have links in the show Do you have just kind of some parting advice for anyone who you know what, I want to expand my definition of service or I want to move outside of what my social constructs are me what service should look like. Do you have any advice on how they can stretch and grow and something new?

Liahni: 1:02:26

When I think about service, service, service can come of different ways. It could be a note to a friend or whatever. But if you are ever feeling low, if you feel like you I find that when you serve somebody else, your spirit your heart feels lighter, you feel happier. And so I would say, I don't know that it has to be big or committing to a volunteer thing. Find friends and family that you can do something for. And if you do want to find a place to volunteer, there are million places that you can go. And if you want to volunteer at the Ronald McDonald us a call. But I would say the advice is do it, try it, and then

Heather: 1:03:18

I love that. Thank you. Perfect way to end. Thank you so much for joining us, Liahni.

Liahni: 1:03:24

Thanks, Heather. I really appreciate it.

Heather: 1:03:30

Thanks for joining me at The Approachable Jesus. Please share this episode with a friend. That's how these conversations find the people who My newsletter, current course offerings, and all my latest are at timesofith.com. Remember, Jesus is closer and more approachable than you